The left and their Islamic allies are "outraged." RINOs are expressing concern. Is burning the Quran the Christian thing to do? Won't we just alienate the Muslims even further? Will this come back to bite us in the butt? Oh look at me, I am so TOLERANT and RESPONSIBLE! I'm not like the unschooled rednecks who want to burn Qurans. Shall I pose for pictures now?
So they're outraged. Too bad. I am in a continual state of outrage every day that Nancy Pelosi is in office. I am outraged that I don't have gainful employment. I am outraged that I may lose my house. I am outraged that our Islamic enemies are building a triumphal mosque at the site of their greatest atrocity, where they no doubt will symbolically dance on our graves. I spend so much time being outraged that my outrage gland is cramping up and may shut down from sheer exhaustion. So I don't give a rat's rear end if leftists, Rinos and Muslims are outraged over the burning of this nasty, hateful little book. Welcome to the club, the Outrage Club. I am the frigging President.
Did the Quran cause the atrocity of 9/11? You bet your ass it did. Hatred, violence and intolerance are the key hallmarks of the Islamic religion. Whatever the bloody pirate "prophet" hated has been marked as a target for all time. The chief among these targets is the Infidel, i.e. those of us who reject this vile ideology.
So should you be OUTRAGED over Dove's planned burning of the Quran? I am not, any more than I would be if someone wanted to burn Mein Kampf, the Communist Manifesto or Mao's Little Red Book. In fact, I will visit some used bookstores and look for cheap copies of the Quran to burn on September 11. This will not accomplish much in the grand scheme of things, but it will very satisfying and will allow me to express my utter contempt for the Islamic "religion."
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Interesting, Stogie. I'll hold off on burning the Koran. I'm just going to keep documenting Muslim evil and the left's jihadi enablers ...
ReplyDeleteBut the Koran is the source of the jihad and the Islamic evil. So I will burn it and have fun doing it.
ReplyDeleteThe only point of burning books or flags or crosses is to communicate hate in a very obvious way.
ReplyDeleteResist the impulse to be that kind of person, stogie.
You ask, "Did the Quran cause the atrocity of 9/11?" Some people's twisted view of it did, in part. And according to the former president of France, Bush's twisted view of the Bible led him to launch the Iraq war, which has killed a far greater number of innocents, including a greater number of Americans than 9/11. But that won't prompt you to burn any Bibles, because you're reacting to the hard-wired tribalistic bias that psychologists have demonstrated keeps us from judging ourselves and others by the same standards.
At the rally in NYC this week, the anti-Muslim crowd was ready to lynch a Ground Zero construction worker because he was a black man wearing a skull cap. It sounds like you're there, too. See that guy in the blue hard hat? That's you right now. Take a step back.
<p><span>51 Park has become the object of that popular injustice which personifies causes and demands victims for unpopular movements.<span> </span>All the accumulated passions of 9/11 are concentrated on this one mosque. </span>
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For me, burning the Quran does express my hatred...of an evil ideology, one that has slaughtered and oppressed both infidels and Muslims alike, for centuries. And oh yes, I do want to be that kind of person: one with moral clarity who can both discern evil and oppose it.
ReplyDeleteAnd since I know what the Quran and the Haddith teach, I can say for sure that it was Islam's evil ideology of jihad and conquest of the infidel that caused them to plan and execute 9/11. I am not interested in the niceties and the error of political correctness. The ideology of Islam as taught by its bloody prophet caused 9/11. Read 15 books on Islam as I have done and maybe I'll let you argue with me.
Georoge Bush didn't start the Iraq war because of his interpretation of the Bible -- that sounds like talking points from some crazy leftist website like the Daily Kos or Democrat Underground. The idea of regime change in Iraq due to Saddam's weapons of mass destruction began with Bill Clinton, and he was fairly adamant. A majority in Congress, including Democrats, voted to approve the Iraq war. Are they crazy bible nuts too?
Nice quote from "The True Story of Andersonville Prison," but it doesn't apply here. Henry Wirz was innocent, but Islam is not.
9/11 was only one atrocity in a long string of them dating back to the 7th century. Islam kills people. Murder is a part of its sacred texts and non-optional commandments. The Quran is more in the same class with Mein Kampf or the Turner Diaries than it is with the Bible.
<span>Read 15 books on Islam as I have done and maybe I'll let you argue with me.
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From the few books you've mentioned in our discussions, it appears you tend to seek out information that you know will reinforce your opinions, rather than base your opinions on broad reading. I have two friends who are Muslim. The reality of who they are doesn't fit the caricature you've created for yourself. Islam is no more monolithic than Christianity. Individual verses from the Quran don't define Islam any more than the commandment in Deuteronomy 13 to kill all unbelievers defines Judaism and Christianity. There are plenty of bloody prophets in the Old Testament, too. But again, you can't apply the same standard of review because you are working on blind passion. As you've said before, gut feelings trump facts in your final analysis.
My Muslim friends have the same right you and I do to assemble and worship. That's what's at stake with 51 Park: can law-abiding Americans secure their rights even when there is broad support for oppression of an unpopular minority? You unwittingly put your finger on it in a subsequent post: this is unschooled redneckism in action.
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Georoge Bush didn't start the Iraq war because of his interpretation of the Bible -- that sounds like talking points from some crazy leftist website like the Daily Kos or Democrat Underground. </span>
It does sound crazy, but the sources for that information appear to be impeccable. But again, you won't read about it because it conflicts with your passion.
<span>Nice quote from "The True Story of Andersonville Prison," but it doesn't apply here.</span>
You reject the principle in this case because your ethics are not consistent. Your support for the First Amendment appears to be situational, as well. It's unpleasant to say, but it needs to be said: your sentiments are un-American. Not that they aren't shared by many Americans, but in that they are hostile to the best American ideals.
Sven, my support for the First Amendment does not include seditious agents of a foreign ideology that are here to destroy us. It does not include religions that are murderous and tyrannical. I would not support allowing in millions of immigrants who were cannibals either, or who practice human sacrifice or polygamy (hmm, that would include the Muslims). Likewise, I am against a religion that orders men to beat their wives, stone adulterers to death, hangs gays, cuts off the hands of thieves, practices genital mutilation in young girls, practices honor killings and is thoroughly worthless and of no benefit to mankind whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteOh please, don't try a lame attempt to find "moral equivalence" between Jews and Christians and Muslims. For whatever they did in the ancient past, neither Jews or Christians are murdering anyone today on account of religion. Out of all of the world's religions, only Islam is doing that. And Muslims are doing that because their religion specifically orders them to do it. Islam is a religion that is highly anti-semitic by design and by commandment of its scriptures, to kill all Jews before "the last day." Islam is why peace in the middle east is impossible.
And please don't start with the false analogies about Timothy McVeigh or killers of abortion doctors. The former was not a Christian and the latter are not acting under the teachings of Christianity.
You are a typical liberal that blindly follow the dictates of political correctness, and tries to make great sweeping conclusions about an evil ideology because you know one or two Muslims (and they're nice, as if that wipes out the daily bloodbath across the world from Muslims). I read many books, including the Quran and you don't, so it is my opinions that are suspect and yours aren't. Fancy that. Just start with one, maybe "Onward Muslim Soldiers" by Robert Spencer or "The Sword of the Prophet" by Serge Trifkovic. Then maybe you can try the more meaty "The Life of Mahomet" by Sir William Muir (a classic 19th century work on the teachings and history of Islam and its prophet). I've read them all, and more, including "Why I Am Not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq. Islam is evil and is more than a religion, it is a totalitarian ideology. Check the counter in the left side of my blog that tallies the terrorist attacks since 9/11 (there is about 14,000+). You are simply in denial. It is you who start with a preconceived conclusion and try to find the facts to support it.
No, I won't read some leftist pap about Bush attacking Iraq because of his Christian beliefs, because it isn't true, just as it isn't true that the Illuminati are working behind the scenes to orchestrate world events.
<span>@ Sven</span>
ReplyDelete<span> </span>
<span>Please, spare us the appeasement speech, it has become stale. As Churchill said “<span><span>An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last”. </span></span></span>
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<span>First, of course the totalitarian ideology contained in the coran caused the atrocity of 9/11 – and many more atrocities before and since. The last recorded words of the terrorists just before hitting WTC were the coran’s victory cry “allah akbar”. And the current holy war to take over the West and establish a world caliphate is but one more attempt to achieve the goal prescribed in the coran – as if you didn’t know it!. </span>
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<span>Second, you are again using the islamo-socialist propaganda. For one thing, the video you mention is not a “rally in NYC this week”, it is a video of a group of people on their way to the rally that took place almost 3 months ago on June 6, 2010. It took all that time for the leftist media to dig it up and try to sustain their ridiculous accusation of violence against the patriots who refuse to see the murderers of their American brothers glorify themselves through the mosque they have the audacity to plan to build at the very site of their crime. And for another thing, the man wearing the traditional muslim headcover at the center of the video, (either a provocateur or a fool) was not even pushed or harmed during all the time he stayed amid the moving crowd, apparently refusing to budge. “Lynching” is yet another whopper from the leftists, and shame on you for propagating their lie. No muslim was ever threatened in America right after September 11, 2001, and we are not going to loose control of ourselves nine years later.</span>
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<span>By the way, how do you think a Westerner would have been treated if he had stood in the middle of a muslim crowd on their way to demonstrating against America – do you think he would have come out alive? How would their hate have compared with the “hate” we are supposed to be guilty of?</span>
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<span>Third, personally I couldn’t care less what anyone does with copies of the coran and I will not be intimidated by accusations of “racism”, or “bigotry”, or “hate”, or any other slogan used by the leftists to silence us, We The People. You can put it in your pipe and smoke it. </span>
Well said, Atikva!
ReplyDelete<span> the man wearing the traditional muslim headcover ...[is] either a provocateur or a fool</span>
ReplyDelete@Atikva
This is very funny and very sad. Funny because you are so completely clueless. What he is wearing is not a "traditional muslim headcover." As the distinctive logo so prominently signals, what he's wearing is an Under Armour mesh skull cap -- a very popular item of sports apparel that is sold in every Foot Locker in the country. Every NFL broadcast features pro athletes wearing this type of cap. Half the high school footballers in the country own one, too.
Here is a link to the exact item he is wearing. If you click on the link, and then on "reviews" to the right, you can read a product review from a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan talking about how every coalition soldier wants a skull cap like his. In fact, the sweat-wicking properties of Under Armour gear are so popular with soldiers that the U.S. and NATO have banned it because the material catches fire in an explosion.
What's really funny is that this cap, along with the flag-motif necklace the guy is wearing in the video, seems more likely to indicate that he is a veteran than that he is a terrorist.
What's really sad, however, is that your reaction is just like the ignoramuses in the crowd: they are so clueless and hostile that the instant they see somebody who looks a tiny bit different than they do, they label that person the enemy.
<span>No muslim was ever threatened in America right after September 11, 2001</span>
You don't have a clue about this, either. I remember the thug cretin who murdered the Sikh because he thought he was a Muslim. Exactly the same mindset as the guy at the rally who had to be held back from attacking the guy with the skull cap.
<span>and we are not going to loose control of ourselves nine years later</span>
You're wrong again -- almost at the moment you were writing this that drunk kid was trying to murder the Muslim taxi driver in New York.
You are a sad, sad case, Atikva.
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Sven, Muslims do often wear mesh skullcaps. The fool who was one of the 9/11 terrorists, who didn't make the plane, was wearing one all through his trial. I have seen photos of many more. So I agree with Atikva: if the guy wasn't a provocateur he almost certainly was a clueless fool.
ReplyDeleteA lot more American Muslims have attacked or tried to attack American non-Muslims than the other way around. Witness the college student who rented a car expressly for running over his fellow students who were infidels, or the Muslim who shot a Jewish woman to death in Seattle. The Beltway Sniper was a Muslim too and attributed his killing rampage to his religion. Then there are all of the bomb and shooting plots that the FBI stopped before they began. Finally, we have the devout Muslim major who shot and killed thirteen people at Fort Hood. We have lots of healthy reasons to distrust Muslims, much more so than they do us. This is without pointing to foreign atrocities, such as the Madrid, London, Mumbai and Indonesian bombings, where many people were murdered...by Muslims, acting on behalf of their faith.
As far as the guy who slashed the Taxi Driver, he has been identified as a liberal who worked for a liberal inter-faith film company. He was one of yours, not ours.
So some guy got enraged at a man in a mesh cap that he misunderstood for a Muslim. Right after 9/11, some asshat murdered a Sikh. BFD. Those two isolated incidents hardly constitute a pogrom, and your single example doesn't fly. Atikva 1, Sven 0.
The only thing sad is how determined you are to bury your head in the sand when it comes to the Muslim threat, or to ignore the substantial religious violence they have done in this country and will do in the future. Why are you carrying the water for evil, Sven?
The idea that ordinary, law-abiding people shouldn't go out on the street in their everyday clothes because they might run into a crowd of dumbfucks like you and Atikva is what leads to the murder of innocent Sikhs. And if you weren't paralyzed by fear of facts, you would have clicked on my link and seen that there were many, many attacks on and threats against muslims after 9/11.
ReplyDeleteThe amazing thing about Atikva was that he could get so many things completely wrong in just one post. He watched the video, and didn't even comprehend what he saw. He says the crowd was moving past the guy, which is the exact opposite of reality. And you look at his nonsensical, nonfactual statements and chirp, "Well said!"
The two of you. Utter dumbfucks. But what can you expect on a web site with a motto that says God was on the side of the slaveowners?
Stogie, let's not waste any more time with this troll, it's unimportant. I wonder sometimes, do they think they can have the least impact on us patriots with their insults and rantings?
ReplyDeleteAtikva, are you a lady or a guy? Sven thinks you're a guy, for some reason I thought you are female.
ReplyDeleteSven really blew his stack, didn't he?
Sven, no one should be attacked for what they wear. If anyone attacked this guy, then they are wrong, no question. This one incident, however is not terribly relevant in the grand scheme of things. You did say the crowd restrained him, i.e. to protect the mesh-hat guy, didn't you? Well now, we have infidels protecting a possible Muslim.
ReplyDeleteIf Muslims in the US really wanted to be accepted with trust, then they should be mounting mass protest movements against terrorism. They should be sensitive to the site where their religion murdered 3,000 innocent people. The truth is, the planned mosque is a victory monument, a way of dancing on our graves, a deliberate attempt to be provocative.
My stand on Islam is that it is incompatible with Western values and democracy, and is in fact, hostile to those values. In the worst extreme, the Muslim presence is dangerous to life and limb, due to the potential for terrorism. The ardent Jihadis don't see killing great swathes of anonymous persons as murder, they see it as a ticket to heaven.
We all get pissed once in awhile in the heat of debate, so I won't hold it against you. I too have had my moments.
<span>We all get pissed once in awhile in the heat of debate, so I won't hold it against you</span>
ReplyDeleteThank you. I need to remember what the mayor of New York said this week: <span>“There are people of good will on both sides of the debate."</span>
<span>Radical interpretations of Islam violate human rights in a number of places around the globe. Wahabism and the Taliban cruelly oppress the people they control, and they support terrorism against Americans. However, to equate Feisal Abdul Rauf with Mohamed Atta, as you do, stogie, harms those who sympathize with Rauf and helps those who sympathize with Atta. Rauf is doing the thing you say merits trust: taking a public stand against extremism. You really should read what Bloomberg said at his iftar dinner. He noted that Rauf spoke at the Synogogue B'nai Jeshrun memorial service for Daniel Pearl, a Jewish reporter who was murdered by militant Pakistani Islamists. Rauf expressed his solidarity with Jews and Christians "against the rising tide of fanaticism."</span>
<span>Atikva's username suggests he's Jewish. I'd be interested to see what he thinks about this quote from Rauf's synagogue address: "</span><span>If to be a Jew means to say with all one's heart, mind, and soul: Shma` Yisrael, Adonai Elohenu Adonai Ehad; Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One, not only today I am a Jew, I have always been one."</span>
Rauf says the mission of the Cordoba Initiative is "improving Muslim-West relations," "cross-cultural engagement," and "conflict resolution." As we blather here, he is walking the walk and talking the talk where the extremists are: in the Gulf states. His CI chief of staff is a non-Muslim who got her graduate degree in "human rights and modern Islamic legal reform" at a Catholic university. His assistant at CI is a Hebrew-speaking Jew who helped rebuild in Israel after the 2005 Lebanon war.
To say these people want to dance on the graves of the 9/11 dead is fanaticism. Everybody needs to reject fanaticism -- not just Muslims.
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Good morning, Stogie.
ReplyDeleteI don't care what Sven thinks, I didn't even read his/her last posts.
The weather is gorgeous and and I hope you will enjoy it today.
Actually, it isn't fanaticism to say they want to dance on our graves. Islam has a long history of doing just that. That's why they built the mosque on the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, where the temple of Solomon once stood, if I remember right.
ReplyDeleteImproving Muslim-West relations isn't done by building a victory mosque on the site of mass murder. And Muslims lie, as they are commanded to lie, by their scriptures. It is called "taquiya" and they do it all the time to further their goals of conquest.
The Rauf of whom you speak is only "walking the walk" of radical Muslim who hates America and blames Islamic extremism on us. He is tied to terrorists. Read about the slime at "Discover the Networks."
Sven, I really don't understand why you and other liberals so easily cast caution to the wind and believe every transparent lie that comes from evil groups. You too are at risk, not just us. You are overly tolerant ("To tolerate evil is a crime" --Thomas Mann"), overly credulous, and refuse to believe what is in front of your own eyes.
<span>> He is tied to terrorists."
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Who are the terrorists to whom you refer? And what are Rauf's ties to them?
If what you say were true, it would be big, big news. At the very least, Fox would report it.
Sven, you are a fool, a rigid liberal ideologue.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am really tired of doing your Google work for you. Do it yourself. Here's what "Discover the Networks" says about Rauf's terrorist ties:
ReplyDelete<span>Rauf has praised Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, a Muslim scholar who supports Palestinian suicide bombings, as "a very, very well known Islamic jurist, highly regarded all over the Muslim world." He has also expressed respect for the late Egyptian cleric Muhammad Tantawi (who likewise endorsed suicide bombings) and Egypt's Chief Mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa (who has endorsed Hezbollah and defended Islam's use of the death penalty for apostasy).</span>
I asked for specifics to get you to demonstrate two things: 1) you see facts as a hallmark of the enemy, and 2) you don't know what you're linking to and quoting (like with Yeti man).
ReplyDeleteYour "Discover the Networks" link points to Pamela Gellers' anti-Rauf page, which quotes out of context and mischaracterizes something Rauf said in a public lecture in 2005 at the University of Australia. The preceding link is to the complete transcript. It would be very rational and open-minded of you to read Rauf's own words, in context, and form your opinion on that basis.
<p><span>The title of his address was, “What does it take to change the relationship between the West and the Muslim World?”</span>
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</p><p><span>Rauf made the Koranic case for tolerance of other religions, and said things like, “Acts like the London bombing are completely against Islamic law. Suicide bombing, completely against Islamic law, completely, 100 per cent.”</span>
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</p><p><span>As one point someone asked him, Why can’t the broader Muslim community counteract the Muslims whose poisonous teachings incite terrorism?</span>
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</p><p><span>Rauf gave this answer: </span>
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</p><p><span>That's a very important and excellent question. The answer is it is being done. The broader community is in fact criticising and condemning actions of terrorism that are being done in the name of Islam. I just came from a conference in Jordan, Amman where there were over 170 leading Muslim scholars from almost every part of the Muslim world, including some of the most important names like Sheikh Tantawi of Egypt, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, who is the Chief Mufti of Egypt, the Chief Mufti of Jordan, the Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, who is a very very well known Islamic jurist, highly regarded all over the Muslim world. They included fatwas obtained from people like ..... Istani who could not attend but also issued a fatwa condemning acts of terrorism and stating that the attribution of infidel to others is not something that should be done and is outside of the ethics of Islam.</span>
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</p><p>That preceding paragraph is the proof you offer for your claim that Rauf "is tied to terrorists."
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</p><p>Rauf has made a career out of trying to resolve the misunderstandings that cause violence between Muslims and Western governments. He is, arguably, the leading American-Muslim speaking out against Muslim extremists. Your attempt to portray him as a terrorist is counter-factual, fanatical, and strengthens the hand of the real terrorists.
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</p><p>Your position seems to be that all Muslims are terrorists, no matter what, and they only deny it because the Koran tells them to hide their plans to kill all infidels. You are a fanatic.
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Sven, Rauf lied when he said that Islam does not support terrorism or suicide bombings. It's taquiya: lying to advance the religion. For a guy who has read nothing about Islam, it is amazing how much of an expert you pretend to be. I am not going to list voluminous references for you to follow, because you won't. Do your own research.
ReplyDeleteYour reference to "yeti" was totally without substance then and hasn't grown any since. Give it up.
Facts are not my enemy, but facts are hardly ever on your side. You deal in wishful thinking and denial.
<span>The fact is, you said this statement by Rauf:</span>
ReplyDelete<span><span>That's a very important and excellent question. The answer is it is being done. The broader community is in fact criticising and condemning actions of terrorism that are being done in the name of Islam. I just came from a conference in Jordan, Amman where there were over 170 leading Muslim scholars from almost every part of the Muslim world, including some of the most important names like Sheikh Tantawi of Egypt, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, who is the Chief Mufti of Egypt, the Chief Mufti of Jordan, the Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, who is a very very well known Islamic jurist, highly regarded all over the Muslim world. They included fatwas obtained from people like ..... Istani who could not attend but also issued a fatwa condemning acts of terrorism and stating that the attribution of infidel to others is not something that should be done and is outside of the ethics of Islam.</span>
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...proves he "is tied to terrorists."
You can't deal with facts when you get them wrong, so you change the subject.
And then you have your all-purpose excuse to cover any screw-up: "Even if the Muslims I say are terrorists are actually saying the things I demand that Muslims say, they're still terrorists because all Muslims lie about not being terrorists."
You are trolling me. :)
Muslims do lie. Mohammed lied, making treaties he had no intention of keeping (google The Treaty of , and then saying no Muslim is obligated to abide by any contract made with non-Muslims.
ReplyDelete<span>Qur'an 9:3<span></span>"Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle."</span>
Arafat once reassured fellow Muslims when he was pretending to negotiate peace with Israel (I read it in one of my books on Islam). Then there is Taquiyya, or lying for Islam:
<span>Taqiyya offers two basic uses. The better known revolves around dissembling over one's religious identity when in fear of persecution. Such has been the historical usage of taqiyyaamong Shi'i communities whenever and wherever their Sunni rivals have outnumbered and thus threatened them. Conversely, Sunni Muslims, far from suffering persecution have, whenever capability allowed, waged jihad against the realm of unbelief; and it is here that they have deployedtaqiyya—not as dissimulation but as active deceit. In fact, deceit, which is doctrinally grounded in Islam, is often depicted as being equal—sometimes superior—to other universal military virtues, such as courage, fortitude, or self-sacrifice. </span>http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
The fact is, Rauf has said a lot of disturbing things that show he is pretty much your standard issue Muslim leader, i.e. hate the infidel, approve of suicide bombings and blame Islamic violence on the West ("you made me do it").
The problem here is, I don't believe Rauf's comments above. Once again, I believe my own eyes and not hollow statements and promises from an ardent Muslim who is permitted by his religion to lie. There are no significant Muslim movements denouncing terrorism or demanding an end to it, in this or any other country.
I just don't believe Rauf on the basis of your meager paragraph above. You do believe Rauf, and once again I think you are credulous and naive, allowing wishful thinking to blind you to his true nature.